So I have been developing a very cool art site on my own, based around a Flash-based drawing application. But occasionally, I've needed to subcontract small bits of code and that can be a frustrating experience.
I won't go into the technical details of the latest code block I tried to subcontract out, just the frustrations of trying to subcontract it.
I posted a detailed explanation of what needed to be done and the skills required to Rent A Coder and Craig's List. I asked for two things... please describe your experience and skills related to these requirements, and please bid a project price (not per hour, but to do this specific job).
So far, the most promising response has been from an Egyptian on Rent A Coder who actually looked at some of the supporting code I'd provided, found it interesting, and said he'd bid it when he finished some other jobs. The rest...
"Hi, we're a web design firm with lots of experience in SEO, Flash, graphic design, and PHP/MySQL. Please look over our portfolio of sites."
Okay, where is the description of your experience with the specific skills I need? Where's your bid? Which of these sites is applicable to my project? You see, I didn't ask for graphic design, SEO, or PHP/MySQL. I asked for very specific skills, so just showing you can do a few loosely related things isn't addressing my needs or my specific request.
"I'm a freelance graphic designer. Here's my resume."
Okay, first, I didn't ask for a resume. Second, the guy's listing stuff like being a customer service rep for a credit union on it. Why would I care about your work experience that doesn't relate to this project? Third, where's the description of your experience/skills that are directly relevant to this project? Fourth, where's your bid?
Google hired 5,000 new employees in 2006, but they got 1,000,000 resumes. I'd call that an embarrassment of riches, but I know that out of that 1,000,000, most of the resumes are from people who didn't read the job description, didn't read the application instructions, and just shot off a generic resume and cover letter that didn't address the most important question... why are you the best person for this job?
Probably the most infuriating thing on Rent A Coder is all the people who post "comments". Basically, this feature is intended for a coder to be able to ask questions about the project before they place a bid, but a lot of the coders use it to post a form letter introducing their services. Great.
I didn't request a form letter, and furthermore, there's nothing I can do with it. I can't award you the contract until you bid on it. So if you don't have a question about it and you don't place a bid, what am I supposed to do with a form letter?
How does a form letter that neither addresses your specific abilities to do the project or asks questions about the project help us communicate? More importantly, when my job posting asks you to respond with specific information and you respond with a form letter instead, how is that supposed to inspire confidence that you'll pay attention to detail and follow my instructions if I hire you?
Maybe I'm just a persnickety cuss and all of this is a complex dance that is above the level of my social skills. But I doubt it. I just believe that too many people take a shotgun, scattered approach to trying to get jobs and solicit business. They fool themselves into believing that if they send out the same marketing materials (be it a form resume and cover letter, or form cover letter and brochure) enough times, they'll get work.
But I don't believe this scattershot, quantity-over-quality approach is good. There are possibly a lot of opportunities you might have been considered for that you were eliminated from immediately, simply because you didn't follow instructions or hit the right selling points.
Sometimes it feels like I've gone into a big box retailer, looking for a specific product, and found the ADD Employee of the Month.
Me: Hi, I'm planning to make up a big batch of chili for a party this weekend and I need a 12 quart stock pot.
Salesperson: We've got vacuum cleaners on sale today. Let me show you the latest from Dyson.
Me: I don't need a vacuum cleaner. What I really need is a good stock pot.
Salesperson: Did you know we have the largest selection of scented candles in town?
Me: Really? That's very interesting. Now, about that stock pot...
Salesperson: We have an entire wall of throw pillows.
Me: They're very nice, but I'm looking for a stock pot...?
Salesperson: Do you like the color of my shoelaces? I dyed them myself.
When you disregard their instructions, their needs, and show little respect for the value of their time, you're treating them as if they exist to serve you. You're telling them that you couldn't be less concerned with what they want or need. You're out to make some money, and if they want to give you some of theirs, you'll be happy to accept it.
What kind of sales pitch is that?
Whether you're trying to get a contract or a job, you're asking the employer/client to buy your services. So if you're standing there, trying to get them to admire your shoelaces, and another salesperson says "we've got a stock pot that's perfect for chili. Let me show it to you," they're going to walk off with that salesperson and leave you staring at your feet.
So, if you want to get my business (or anyone else's) try to follow these four simple bits of advice...
- Do your best to understand the customer's needs.
- Ask questions. This engages the customer and provides you with valuable information to fill in any gaps in your understanding of their needs.
- Figure out the specific things you can offer that will meet those needs.
- Sell the customer on those things.
Any other approach wastes everyone's time, your's included, and generally leads to you not getting the job, project, or contract.
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Greg,
You bring up very valid points.
I actually work at Rent a Coder and would like to ask your permission to post this to coders. We actually have articles on site that tell them that doing this is bidding suicide, but having a buyer say it will really re-inforce it and drive it home.
Thanks,
Rod
[...] On the heels of my post about trying to find a coder for a small project, I find that my friend Aaron Dragushan of WonderMill (tthe company that brings you such cool sites as FreedBack) started his own blog, and his first post of the month is on finding a designer. [...]
I understand your pain and sympathize ... to a degree. I started following RentACoder some years ago and still get their daily notices.
I have yet to bid a project. Wouldn't have bid yours - don't have the skillset you want.
But I'll be frank, as a professional developer I'm rather put off by the offers put forward by those wanting work done. I see many things that in my estimation could involve several months of work and they get stuck in the "Max Bid $100" pile. No way is a professional going to bid something like that. Anyone want professional coding - expect to pay professional rates. My rates to organizations are either FREE for small jobs, or $40/hr for a serious commitment. More possibly depending on complexity of the end product. Remember that independent professional programmers must pay all expenses, self-employment taxes, FICA, and odds and ends like insurance and rent out of what they make.
As for bidding a Fixed Firm Price job - for that I would want (and I presume you gave) extremely precise, detailed design and requirements specifications to examine before I even started. If you want me to bid such a thing without those, I won't do it - the risk factor is simply too high. It's unbelievable how many "couldn't we..." and "how about this, too..." things come along that people seem to expect to fall under the original umbrella if you don't have such things in place.
I don't much like RentACoders policies in some areas also - they don't allow potential solution providers to simply GIVE away a free answer to a simple question, instead insisting that someone pay for what many would gladly and happily provide for absolutely no cost at all. I see those requests and wince at the thought that I would be in violation of my agreement with RentACoder if I simply told them I'd do it for nothing - here: the answer is a one-liner How-To that you probably could have gotten on line for nothing with a simple Google search or use of Help in a particular product. But RentACoder insists that I charge for the answer if I give it through them. So I don't.
But you're correct - make sure you get the right person, or at least A right person, for the job. And you won't get that from a generic "we build the world" type of response. On the other side of the coin, and this is meant in a generic way since I have no knowledge at all of the offer you made ... but be prepared to actually make a fair and reasonable offer if you want truly professional assistance, otherwise expect to be inundated with responses from those without a deep experience pool to draw from to fulfill your needs.
JLatham: "I see many things that in my estimation could involve several months of work and they get stuck in the “Max Bid $100″ pile."
The 'Max Bid $100' people are either clueless newbies or (likely) absolute hardcore skinflints 'jonesing' for the lowest possible price to get a programming task done. That can only be done by programmers living in places where the cost of living is (very) low.
Unfortunately I live in the USA where a loaf of good bread costs $2.00 in a supermarket.
Because of this, I gave up on sites like Rent-A-Coder and their ilk.
Thanks for the heads-up on the 'going rate' for freelance programmers
where it is worthwhile to take an assignment.
I am trying to make money with my programming skills as I used to be paid to co-write code that business *depended* on.
Just worth noting, my project is listed as a "small business project - $100 and above" with no maximum bid set. From my experience, that sets the minimum at $100, but it could easily be bid at $1500 or $5000. When I posted a project at the next level, $500 and above, a coder who was willing to bid $450 couldn't, because that level set the minimum bid at $500.
Perhaps that's a mistake of job posters on RAC... setting that minimum. If they're open to fair bids, don't set a minimum amount because some people see that $100 and think the project must be bid in the $100 range.
I'll edit the bid and see if that changes things.
Greg Bulmash: "When I posted a project at the next level, $500 and above, a coder who was willing to bid $450 couldn’t, because that level set the minimum bid at $500."
I think I know why this is....
There appears to be a 'no authorization needed' corporate spending cap set at $500.00
Anything can be bought under that with the *absolute minimum* muss and fuss.
$500.00 and over and there will be delays in acceptance and payment of such a 'large' sum of money for goods and services (about to be) recieved because 'authorization is needed'.
Poking aroud in Google revealed a higher no-authorization spending cap but this was at some college (a nonprofit?).
I speak from personal experience but do not want to go into specifics due to privacy reasons. I can reveal that the client was for-profit hence the $500.00 cap I was told about.
The majority of bidders at sites like Rent-A-Coder and their ilk know about this cap and that is why they bid as they do.
They simply want to get the job, do it, and get paid in full as fast as possible.
Pro Coder - I consider $40/hr a very reasonable rate in mid-America at this point in time. I did coding for large companies such as SWBell, SBC Corp, Altec-Lansing, and similar as a contractor while working for a small business back in the late 90's and early 00's and they were paying $70/hr at that time and thinking they were getting a bargain, especially when compared to the prices for services from companies like Oracle and Microsoft.
Part of the issue probably is the world-wide access that any web site gives; it's difficult to compete with someone working out of New Dehli who may be equally qualified. Then again, the programmer trying to pay for his $1100/month one-bedroom apartment in NYC is going to have trouble competing with me - it's a cost of living thing. Especially when many projects can be completed via 'telecommuting' with good broadband service and the occassional telephone call ... I was usually only on-site for initial planning meetings and during portions of implementation of systems developed, everything else was handled via email, FTP file exchange and phone calls.
But the subject of the blog entry was resume's - and providing information regarding qualifications for a particular project. I wholeheartedly agree with that need from the buyer's standpoint. You don't get service from the world's premier .NET or VB coder for a project that you want done in C or Java, not unless they can really pitch success in their area of expertise on project(s) with similar levels of complexity and functionality.
I would also say that a good 'bid' would include exactly that for more complex jobs: it should lay out a schedule and provide some information on how the total bottom-line price was arrived at. If it was 'gut feeling' based on experience, fine - say so. But if more specifics can be provided, I'd say to include those. It tells the buyer that you've actually given the requirements some thought.
To the buyers: I notice sometimes that you try to tell your coder HOW to do the job. That's kind of silly to me - if you know HOW to do it, do it. Requirements should state WHAT is to be accomplished and if platform/language is crucial, then by all means specify that - but leave it up to the hired hand as to HOW to use those tools to accomplish the ends. If you picked the right person (that resume and portfolio again) then they will know best how to get the job done using 'best practices' for things like user interface, data exchange, configuration control and writing efficient, maintainable code.
Bargain Basement Pricing: Here's a helpful, potentially money saving suggestion: if you have an in-house project going on that you get stumped with, DON'T immediately put out a bid for help. You'd be surprised at what is available free online from both professionals and strong, knowledgeable entheusiasts at places like http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx or http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?&sel=0,16823695 if you are stuck on a problem involving a 'standard' application. I've seen employees of some seriously large companies come in to those places looking for assistance with everything from Microsoft Office applications to Quickbooks, etc and getting it at no cost other than the time taken to clearly and concisely describe the problem. Talk about the opportunity to get the advice and assistance from real experts without having to pay real-experts pricing!
JLatham
$1100 one bedroom apartment in NYC?
Man, that is so nineties.. Try $1900
I think all those 'sellers' requesting a 'copy of this site' or a 'clone of that site' should be banned from these types of request. That's not a specification and the coder who responds will most likely end up not getting paid (or sued). And besides, you cannot expect a clone of a complex application for $100 as many posters seem to think possible.
In addition, those persons listing their several requirements and requesting coders to provide a 'snippet' of the overall solution must surely be hoping that the response will cover all their bases without them paying a penny. Ignore them.